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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a quick question....i have a le 1.4 na with the engine b14xel and the mrs has a 1.4 na adam with the b14xer engine.

Would these be the same engines just with a modified ecu as hers is 100bhp while mine is 90.
Shame vauxhall didnt use the same higher output na in the corsa.
 

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shepherd88 said:
Just a quick question....i have a le 1.4 na with the engine b14xel and the mrs has a 1.4 na adam with the b14xer engine.

Would these be the same engines just with a modified ecu as hers is 100bhp while mine is 90.
Shame vauxhall didnt use the same higher output na in the corsa.
100PS is the 1.4 Turbo on both models, at least I thought it was..
 

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I see this can of worms needs to be discussed again, my 90bhp 1.4 n/a Corsa has the B14XER, as does most people with a 1.4 n/a Corsa E, it may say on your car pass etc that it's the B14XEL but stamped on the engine and in the V5C doc it will I'm fairly certain say B14XER, we have had a lengthy topic about this already, and a few of us have spoken to Vauxhall about it, they are aware of the mistake but they basically advise XEL and XER relate to the same engine in the E, I believe the reason its had its bhp output lowered from 100bhp to 90bhp is because the E comes with a 1.4 T 100bhp engine and the different power is to distinguish between the 2 so that uneducated motorists don't think they will be the same performance, economy and running costs due to the identical bhp output and just think the Turbo is a rip off costing extra money for the same bhp when that's not the case.

I believe the 1.4 n/a is also available in 87bhp form in the most basic Astras and Adam trims, and no ive not a clue why they've bothered making it 3bhp less.
 

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Even with identical engines and identical ECU maps the PS figure will be different in different cars because air inlet tracts, exhausts, gearboxes and drivetrain components will sap power to different degrees.

PS is measured at the wheels AFTER all losses are taken into account.

BHP is measured at the flywheel BEFORE any losses are in effect.

HP is simply a figure derived from the PS figure. You can not compare PS figures to BHP figures and no Corsa power output is specified in BHP by VX themselves although the numpty media seem to have printed/quoted it incorrectly everywhere.

Then PEAK power is irrelevant as it is usually obtained at stupidly high rpm that you would be daft to use in real world as your engine/gearbox would not last long.

You need to compare like for like so when studying engine specs look at the torque figure and the rev band it is available over.

Eg. 1.4T =200Nm (same as a Renault Clio 172) upto 3750rpm, 1.0T=160Nm upto 5750 hence 1.4T is more powerful engine in 99.99% of driving regardless of peak PS.

Also VX have tried to give the Corsa E better mpg so the exhaust may be deliberately more restrictive. This increases backpressure which increases torque at lower rpm and gives better mpg in normal driving. Free flow exhaust frees up gas flow at very high rpm so can increase PS at say 5K+rpm but loses torque at lower rpm resulting in worse mpg. Thus a 1.4T has only Peak 100PS but can do 70mpg at motorway cruising speeds where the engine is spinning at 1800-2500rpm NOT 5K rpm.
 

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Regarding Corsa vs Adam 1.4 engines:

Adam 1.4 100PS engine produces that peak 100PS at 6K rpm and has maximum torque of 130Nm.
Corsa 1.4 90PS produces less peak power at 6K rpm but has same torque in same band

6K rpm is an irrelevent figure for normal driving, you should rarely be getting above 4K rpm let alone upto 6K rpm if you are looking after your car so a totally pointless measurement.

The Corsa manages to produce 5% higher combined mpg despite Corsa being a heavier car by over 100Kg which suggests that the installation in the Corsa is tweaked for better low down torque and greater mpg.

Changing the Corsa exhaust to a slightly more free flowing design would increase the PS at that 6K rpm to match the Adam but would move the torque higher up the rev range and result in poorer mpg in normal day to day driving. (It may simply be that the Corsa exhaust is 0.5m longer than the Adam, being a longer car, which results some additional restriction)

I actually think VX have got it right with the Corsa, the engines are torquey at low rpms and that makes then really nice to drive in normal conditions (not racing) and gives great mpg which many of us can confirm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ahh thanks for the info guys :) bit gutted i didnt go for the 1.4t now as it seems better mpg and more usable power. The salesman said there was hardly any noticable difference in the na and turbo versions.
I beg to differ.
 

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shepherd88 said:
The salesman said there was hardly any noticable difference in the na and turbo versions.
I beg to differ.
What had he been smoking at the time??? :eek: :shock:

The 1.4T gets similar mpg to the 1.4na but has 60% more torque between 2000-3500rpm which means it'll slingshot past traffic on a winding A road that a 1.4na simply couldn't attempt and will still accelerate quickly in 6th gear at 70mph on motorway to get past slower moving BMW's and the likes ;)

ALSO NOTE: That the 1.4T is a de-tuned 150PS engine, the de-tuning actually consists of restricting fuelling about 4K rpm, below 4K rpm the 1.4T actually has virtually the same power and torque as the 150PS unit and I rarely if ever go over 4K rpm anyway, I just don't need to as the car pulls strongly when changing up even at just 2-3K rpm so effectively I'm enjoying all the benefits of the 150PS performance when I need it while getting the mpg of a 1.4na most of the rest of the time :)
 

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mud4fun said:
shepherd88 said:
The salesman said there was hardly any noticable difference in the na and turbo versions.
I beg to differ.
What had he been smoking at the time??? :eek: :shock:

The 1.4T gets similar mpg to the 1.4na but has 60% more torque between 2000-3500rpm which means it'll slingshot past traffic on a winding A road that a 1.4na simply couldn't attempt and will still accelerate quickly in 6th gear at 70mph on motorway to get past slower moving BMW's and the likes ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: That made me laugh! Beemer drivers (along with Audi drivers) often think they own the road!

To me there felt very little difference between the two engines, the 1.4n/a seemed to fly right from the start like the 1.4T, but the 1.4n/a struggles uphill in 4th. There are lot of hills where I live!
 

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LeachiE said:
To me there felt very little difference between the two engines, the 1.4n/a seemed to fly right from the start like the 1.4T, but the 1.4n/a struggles uphill in 4th. There are lot of hills where I live!
That seems odd, I test drove a 1.4na and there was a marked difference in performance between that and my 1.4T.

Did you get to take the car out on your own or did the salesman come with you? Depending on the road conditions, if you took it steady and didn't take it much above 2000rpm then it is unlikely you will have noticed much difference between the two engines as a turbo engine doesn't give its additional performance until the turbo is fully spinning at 2500+ rpm, hence the reason it gets similar mpg to the 1.4na when driven like a 1.4na. If you plant the throttle the mpg soon drops rapidly to most un-1.4na levels ;-)
 

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mud4fun said:
shepherd88 said:
The salesman said there was hardly any noticable difference in the na and turbo versions.
I beg to differ.
What had he been smoking at the time??? :eek: :shock:

The 1.4T gets similar mpg to the 1.4na but has 60% more torque between 2000-3500rpm which means it'll slingshot past traffic on a winding A road that a 1.4na simply couldn't attempt and will still accelerate quickly in 6th gear at 70mph on motorway to get past slower moving BMW's and the likes ;)

ALSO NOTE: That the 1.4T is a de-tuned 150PS engine, the de-tuning actually consists of restricting fuelling about 4K rpm, below 4K rpm the 1.4T actually has virtually the same power and torque as the 150PS unit and I rarely if ever go over 4K rpm anyway, I just don't need to as the car pulls strongly when changing up even at just 2-3K rpm so effectively I'm enjoying all the benefits of the 150PS performance when I need it while getting the mpg of a 1.4na most of the rest of the time :)
Whilst I agree with pretty much every point youve made in your 3 posts, I do have to disagree about the 1.4 n/a not being able to attempt to pass traffic on winding A roads, because ive done it and providing you are a decent driver its no problem, I think if you were a rubbish driver with no sense of which gear to be in and so on you could still do it no bother in the 1.4 Turbo, whereas in the n/a it takes a bit more skill and experience. I'm actually pleasantly surprised by how nippy my car is, its never going to compare to a 1.4T but for the mpg figures, cheap tax and low running costs it has its quite impressive, I only actually bought the 1.4 n/a because I wanted something cheap to run but it had to be less slow than my previous 1.2 Clio which was frustratingly slow and I knew the 1.2 D was even worse, in fact even the 1.4 Ds were pretty bad hence why I wanted a diesel Corsa, when the salesman said it wasn't worth my while because of the extra cost purchase price which id never recoup with the mileage I do and how itd affect reliability I explained I didn't care because the diesel would be cheap to run and still have a bit of go, he told me to try their 1.4 n/a Ecoflex demo and I was actually really surprised, even on the motorway cruising in 5th at 60 if I want to overtake traffic (providing as Leachie says its not a massive hill) I can pull out and out my foot down and it picks up speed quickly enough for me that if I'm not watching the speedo I'm at 85/90 before I know it and have to back off. I still wouldn't have a 1.2 but it is a vast improvement over the old engines in the DS despite being based on the same basic blocks, VX have actually done a great job of tweaking them.
 

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Yes agreed Hendry although if we are comparing like for like then put the same good driver in both cars and they could overtake faster and more safely in the 1.4T. The less time spent on the wrong side of the road the safer you are.

As mentioned previously, I drive classic cars with just 26hp at the wheels. On some forums I belong to, people have claimed that they are simply not capable of keeping up with modern traffic or being safe. I've driven 100K miles in them all round the country and I've never had an issue, in fact I often find myself being held up by people in far more modern powerful cars! so I agree that driver skill and experience counts for alot.

However I was simply trying to give an example of where the extra power is noticeable. In my view the 1.4T allows for a more rapid overtake. On twisty A roads were you may only have a couple hundred yards of clear road before the next bend you want to have confidence you'll get past and back in again as swiftly as possible. My judgement was that in certain overtakes I've done in Dafny they would not have been possible in the 1.4na. In truth they we only barely possible in the 1.4T and I was pushing my luck! ;-)
 

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I guess the truth is that it is difficult to pin point a specific scenario where in 'normal' driving the 1.4T is necessary over a 1.4na because the extra performance is a luxury and not justifiable unless you admit to being a boy/girl racer and enjoying beating cars away from the lights or doing more risky overtakes.... ;-) ;-)

For the same reason I'm struggling to think of a reason why I need the VXR which I'm currently looking at buying :oops: :oops: (Because I find the 1.4T a bit slow? ;-) )
 

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mud4fun said:
I guess the truth is that it is difficult to pin point a specific scenario where in 'normal' driving the 1.4T is necessary over a 1.4na because the extra performance is a luxury and not justifiable unless you admit to being a boy/girl racer and enjoying beating cars away from the lights or doing more risky overtakes.... ;-) ;-)

For the same reason I'm struggling to think of a reason why I need the VXR which I'm currently looking at buying :oops: :oops: (Because I find the 1.4T a bit slow? ;-) )
Well I used to be able to overtake safely without a lot of time or space in a 1.2 Clio so I think maybe it's the case that these other people who dawdle in higher powered cars or those who say a 26hp Land Rover is dangerous is because they are too used to powerful cars which their poor driving ability is masked by.

I haven't had any bother beating people off lights etc. In my 1.4 n/a (not that I do it deliberately but I'm talking about if there are 2 lanes of traffic, one a left/right turn only and the other the straight on lane, which is busy/lomng queue so our smartarse Merc/Audi/BMW drivers feel they are too important to wait in the queue and will go down the left/right turn lane with the aim of beating someone off the lights to cut them up and go straight on)

The reason you want a VXR is you're really just an 18yr old chav at heart and you want to impress 18yr old slappers with its loud exhaust and the dump valve going "ptsshhh" :lol: but don't forget you definitely need to rip out the Intellilink and get a Ripspeed motorised flip out head unit that you can mate up your Oakley 6x9s on the parcel shelf and 2x Fli 12" subwoofers in the boot so you can play overly loud and very distorted "Dave Pearce Trance Nation Anthems" to make the ground vibrate as you cruise by and sound like some rubbish rave going on inside the car to get all the wee dirties excited, and maybe a mini fridge plugged into the 12v socket to keep the Buckfast and Strongbow cider cold :lol: :cool:
 

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Haha! :lol:

Nah, I think the 1.4T LE already satisfies the 18yr old chav aspect, the VXR is more for your 27yr old chav so is closer to my age range - only 20 years out instead of 30 :mrgreen:
 

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Lol it poses the question, what colour would you get the Vixxer in? To my knowledge it's not available in limelight green unfortunately, cos I think that would've looked ace with the VXR styling
 

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Blue, it is the only colour unique to the VXR (for the moment). Yes, shame no limelight green. I was hoping they would offer that lovely coppery orange colour that was on the old VXR, I loved that colour. Bit of a rubbish choice of colours really. Most are common colours on LE's so the VXR wouldn't stand out from the crowd.
 

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I think Shiny Rock looks good on the VXR (I would say that, I'm biased lol) but yeah I agree it doesn't really stand out, I think both the D VXR and E VXR look good in grasshopper/lime green.
 

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hendry said:
I think Shiny Rock looks good on the VXR (I would say that, I'm biased lol) but yeah I agree it doesn't really stand out, I think both the D VXR and E VXR look good in grasshopper/lime green.
Yes and I like lime green myself but it is really common already. I've seen more lime green E's than any other colour (although possibly because they stand out more!) - maybe we should have a 'what colour do you have" poll ;-)

I think for the price VX are charging for the VXR and for its optional paint they should have offered a unique set of colours.
 

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mud4fun said:
hendry said:
I think Shiny Rock looks good on the VXR (I would say that, I'm biased lol) but yeah I agree it doesn't really stand out, I think both the D VXR and E VXR look good in grasshopper/lime green.
Yes and I like lime green myself but it is really common already. I've seen more lime green E's than any other colour (although possibly because they stand out more!) - maybe we should have a 'what colour do you have" poll ;-)

I think for the price VX are charging for the VXR and for its optional paint they should have offered a unique set of colours.
Heh, it's funny because lime green is considered a rarer colour.
 

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I'd do a poll but I think there are more than 10 colours and the polls are restricted to just 10 answers. I'll take a look now.
 
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